Irc discussions from #mirage on 29-06-2016

Written by unpurecamelbot
Classified under: irclog
Published: 2016-06-29 (last updated: 2016-07-27)

29-06-2016 17:02 avsm Call agenda for today up here:

29-06-2016 17:03 avsm There wasn't much on quality and test in the agenda, but progress has been made this week in terms of infrastructure and containers. There's quite a big array on now (see the README)

29-06-2016 17:04 avsm Latest Fedora, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE and ARM variations of Alpine are all now there and mostly debugged (some issues left on ARM due to the CPU emulation, when building on x86_

29-06-2016 17:04 hannes do they build mirage-skeleton on a regular basis?

29-06-2016 17:04 avsm hannes: they do, but the logs go into my personal cron logs. Next steps are to push them somewhere use ul, perhaps a Canopy setup

29-06-2016 17:04 mort___ (avsm: fwiw— looks like the line for Alpine armhf is duplicated in that page on hub)

29-06-2016 17:04 avsm thomasga and talex5 have been working on a CI as well, hoping to bring that live during the hackathon

29-06-2016 17:05 avsm mort___: fixed in 472 but well done on noticing :)

29-06-2016 17:05 talex5 Does this mean Lwt is building on Alpine again now?

29-06-2016 17:06 thomasga no

29-06-2016 17:06 thomasga just testing that now :-)

29-06-2016 17:06 avsm talex5: I'm still not sure exactly how to fix that beyond add conf-ncurses. Should I just go ahead and do that?

29-06-2016 15:06 hannes avsm: cool! any chance you can enlighten where/whether they'll be able to add more testing for (or what is needed to get this code movement merged?)?

29-06-2016 15:06 thomasga but RUN apk add ncurses-dev fixes the build

29-06-2016 15:07 talex5 I thought the problem was with conf-libev?

29-06-2016 15:07 avsm hannes: they will -- it just unexpectedly blocked on a qemu segfault, frustratingly. Been quite hard to debug. But mort___ now has an ARM64 machine which can build ARM32 natively as well, so this may become easier

29-06-2016 15:07 thomasga avsm: can this is be added as a depext on lwt directly?

29-06-2016 15:07 avsm thomasga: yes, I think so. Lwt is the one with the odd configure script so I have no objection to fixing it there.

29-06-2016 15:08 thomasga talex5: the issue is again in lwt

29-06-2016 15:08 avsm Overall for CI, we have the pieces in place but not the coordination infrastructure. That's the next steps before the hackathon so we can trigger builds more easily.

29-06-2016 15:08 avsm Anything else for quality and test? thomasga: i noticed new alcotest releases?

29-06-2016 15:08 talex5 thomasga: Lwt's is fine Ii think, but the copy in conf-libev seems old and broken.

29-06-2016 15:09 thomasga not really, it tries to compile a file using libev but the error comes from ocamlc complaining about missing ncurses

29-06-2016 15:09 thomasga so nothing to do with libev actually

29-06-2016 15:10 mato tangential depext-related question, is there a depext for "linux kernel headers"? (linux-headers on alpine, linux-libc-dev on Debian/Ubuntu)?

29-06-2016 15:10 mato Solo5 on ukvm will need this as it needs linux/kvm.h

29-06-2016 15:10 avsm mato: there is not, but can be added very easily as a conf-kernel-headers package

29-06-2016 15:10 thomasga I don't think so

29-06-2016 15:11 avsm wonders how that would work on OSX

29-06-2016 15:11 avsm i guess we build in Linux containers on the Mac

29-06-2016 15:11 mato yes, at least until someone ports ukvm to Hypervisor.framework :)

29-06-2016 15:11 avsm on my mythical todo list ;-)

29-06-2016 15:12 avsm Ok, lets save the CI push for the hackathon in 2 weeks then. Next topic

29-06-2016 15:12 avsm Mirage 3! Over to our release manager yomimono...

29-06-2016 15:12 talex5 thomasga: I can't install conf-libev on Alpine even without Lwt. Installing ncurses-dev does fix it. Lwt's works even without ncurses-dev, though (it uses pkg-config and avoids the whole auto-detection mess).

29-06-2016 15:13 yomimono Yes! I've left quite a long list of things in the call agenda, but I'd really like to draw folks' attention to the bits that say it's not clear to me how to even do them

29-06-2016 15:13 yomimono (well, and the bits that say "we should do this but it's not done yet" - if any of that looks like something you could do and you've got some time, that would be great too)

29-06-2016 15:14 yomimono call agenda is at for your convenience

29-06-2016 15:14 hannes the 'specification of version numbers for dependencies' is for inside of!?

29-06-2016 15:14 yomimono no

29-06-2016 15:15 avsm One thing I'm doing to vet these changes is to try to build "real" web services that run under the module signatures. In particular, using ocaml-webmachine and the Slack bindings to run a CI bot. I'm hoping that'll bring out any particularly painful dependency problems.

29-06-2016 15:15 yomimono I just mean some way of saying that a unikernel needs, say, dns > 0.18.3

29-06-2016 15:15 yomimono not just dns

29-06-2016 15:16 djs55 or perhaps even that the unikernel needs dns = 0.18.3, so we can guarantee to be able to rebuild it easily in future?

29-06-2016 15:16 hannes yomimono: yes, what is there is packages: "foo" "bar" "baz"; that should then be "foo=0.18.3"?

29-06-2016 15:16 avsm I think it would be better to generate an opam file instead, and to use OPAM to make reproducible builds. The Mirage file shouldn't overly constrain the library

29-06-2016 15:16 yomimono avsm: that's the idea I had about it that I liked best

29-06-2016 15:16 yomimono hannes: I'm not sure I understand?

29-06-2016 15:17 yomimono djs55: yes, I think that'd be a very useful thing

29-06-2016 15:17 hannes so you want a MirageOS unikernel to consist of, and an opam file, all crafted manually?

29-06-2016 15:17 avsm hannes: nope, generate the opam file during mirage configure

29-06-2016 15:17 thomasga note: if yougenerate an opam file you will "freeze" the deployment model of your unikernel

29-06-2016 15:17 talex5 I've been thinking of doing a "git reset --hard XXX" on opam-repository in my Dockerfiles to get reproducible builds.

29-06-2016 15:17 avsm it should just be and the entrypoint module, rest can be fully generated

29-06-2016 15:18 yomimono thomasga: can you elaborate?

29-06-2016 15:18 hannes avsm: but from what? I meant we already have a spec of dependencies in, only names, no versions yet.

29-06-2016 15:18 mato avsm: where would the source of the version dependencies come from?

29-06-2016 15:18 mato what hannes said :)

29-06-2016 15:18 thomasga the only moment you have all the info that you need, is when you do mirage configure —X

29-06-2016 15:18 thomasga with X fully specified

29-06-2016 15:18 avsm thomasga: yomimono: I think he means that it will select a set of keys (e.g. --xen or --unix) in the opam file. We could add a --name to mirage configure to give the opam package an identity as a selection of keys

29-06-2016 15:19 avsm mato: the functoria specs for a key would have to add the constraints. They're where the package selection currently comes from.

29-06-2016 15:19 thomasga avsm: it's also valid for —dhcp=true/false etc

29-06-2016 15:19 avsm thomasga: yes all the user set keys need to be stored for reproducibility

29-06-2016 15:20 mort___ is it not possible to specify the versioned name in packages in the mirage-http.2.5.2 and so on?

29-06-2016 15:20 thomasga yes it is too

29-06-2016 15:20 avsm The hackathon seems like a decent place to put some of these massive API changes together, but we need to prep PRs ahead of time. the master branch is going to be broken for a while otherwise...

29-06-2016 15:20 thomasga when you generate the opam file, you can "freeze" the version (regarding the current state of opam-repository)

29-06-2016 15:21 thomasga but you will also make the unikernel less portable as you will have to choose the configuration parameters

29-06-2016 15:21 mato so we'd end up with a generated opam package named (e.g.) unikernel-<SHA of constraints> or something like that, which would get installed at "mirage configure" time?

29-06-2016 15:21 talex5 mort___: for < and > constraints at least, they get turned into shell redirections when passed to opam.

29-06-2016 15:21 mort___ for reproducibility i presume that one needs also to get the versions of all dependencies

29-06-2016 15:21 thomasga I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve...

29-06-2016 15:21 mort___ talex5: yes, i was suggesting for exact versions only. (though what about with extra fancy quoting?)

29-06-2016 15:22 hannes thomasga: hmm, shouldn't it be possible at configuration time to generate a disjunction of all possibilities (thinking about "mirage-no-xen" & bla... | mirage-xen & foo)

29-06-2016 15:22 avsm talex5: that seems purely like a shell quoting issue :-)

29-06-2016 15:22 thomasga reproducibility is different than generating an opam file, right?

29-06-2016 15:22 djs55 FYI I've been playing with libuv via fdopen's uwt bindings. It looks like it should be more scalable on Windows and OSX in particular but it isn't an Lwt engine — I'm still working though the implications of that. In particular I've had to avoid using Lwt_unix everywhere, even though I'm targetting Unix (sort of)

29-06-2016 15:22 avsm there are two steps: generate an opam file to freeze the key selections, and then freeze opam-repository and the OS distribution to get reproducibility

29-06-2016 15:22 thomasga for reproducability you also need location of dependency source + digest.

29-06-2016 15:23 avsm djs55: fantastic! An alternative to mirage-unix really helps with cross-platform support

29-06-2016 15:23 thomasga and selection of dependencies will also freeze your configuration more with OS-specific deps

29-06-2016 15:23 thomasga so the more you want to add info, the less you become portable

29-06-2016 15:23 avsm ok, it sounds like we have a lot of pieces in the air at the moment. The hackathon's going to be the most practical place to merge these all into master, as we could test for breakage during the day

29-06-2016 15:24 avsm i dont think we'll have the opam file generation ready for then, so lets defer reproducibility until we can merge some of the bigger API changes

29-06-2016 15:24 avsm Mindy, your call as to merge order into master branches...

29-06-2016 15:24 yomimono merge everything! break everything!

29-06-2016 15:24 yomimono is a child with a hammer

29-06-2016 15:25 thomasga yay!

29-06-2016 15:25 mato was hoping to merge solo5 at the hackathon, but with all the other breaking changes up in the air that might be a bit premature

29-06-2016 15:26 avsm mato: I'm keen to stage the changes so we emerge with a working master branch. We should coordinate a schedule during the day to get stuff in, build the skeletons and make sure things stay working

29-06-2016 15:26 avsm I'm happy to sit around doing that

29-06-2016 15:26 yomimono avsm: we should probably do some planning for test infrastructure to keep that from being too painful, but we can discuss that offline

29-06-2016 15:26 hannes some hours ago I opened a RFC for RANDOM -- feedback welcome on the PR

29-06-2016 15:27 avsm Ok, lets discuss this more when we get to the hackathon. Meanwhile, it would be most useful if people could review the outstanding PRs ahead of the hackathon. I'm also going to propose a few higher level types that can compile to javascript (web API ones)

29-06-2016 15:27 avsm *discuss it more when we get to the hackathon part of the agenda, that is

29-06-2016 15:27 avsm any other PRs that need a look aside from hannes'?

29-06-2016 15:28 avsm an important note: it can be difficult to work on big features at a hackathon, but an excellent time to request merges. So prepare your trees ahead of time :)

29-06-2016 15:28 hannes avsm: certainly PCLOCK/MCLOCK

29-06-2016 15:28 avsm +1 hannes

29-06-2016 15:28 yomimono we have some long-standing ones that I hope to replace or update, like the tracking PR for removing CONSOLE and id

29-06-2016 15:29 yomimono there's one for adding pp_error and friends to FLOW for example too

29-06-2016 15:29 hannes yomimono: that needs rebase...

29-06-2016 15:29 yomimono if you have one of those old PRs, maybe drop a quick note as to whether you it's viable to build on, and close it if you think it's not

29-06-2016 15:29 djs55 PRs which affect mirage types — should we prepare PRs for the affected implementations and then link them together for simultaneous merging?

29-06-2016 15:29 yomimono I prefer that, yes

29-06-2016 15:30 hannes djs55: bonus points for having a branch of all affected packages on mirage-dev repo :)

29-06-2016 15:30 yomimono it's not anybody's responsibility to fix the entire world, but if it breaks mirage-skeleton I like to have a fix efore I merge

29-06-2016 15:30 yomimono hannes: well put :)

29-06-2016 15:30 avsm rebase + hack hack hack hack hack

29-06-2016 15:31 avsm ok, onto Solo5

29-06-2016 15:31 yomimono yaaaaay!

29-06-2016 15:31 avsm djwillia: mato: what's up!

29-06-2016 15:31 thomasga solo5 is awesome

29-06-2016 15:31 avsm I'm running it as a test service on and it's holding up great to a ping flood :-)

29-06-2016 15:31 hannes does it working with the virtio target (on xhyve/bhyve) yet? :)

29-06-2016 15:31 mato Good progress. Mirage/Solo5 now working with unikernel-runner (tho ukvm only, so you need a /dev/kvm)

29-06-2016 15:31 djwillia mato's been doing awesome stuff and i've just been schmooozing at conferences

29-06-2016 15:32 mato hannes: Virtio works, but I've not documented how to run it :)

29-06-2016 15:32 hannes mato: pls tell, willing to spend a weekend on getting it on bhyve

29-06-2016 15:32 hannes (multiboot)

29-06-2016 15:32 avsm link to djwillia paper at

29-06-2016 15:32 mato hannes: I'll doc it tomorrow

29-06-2016 15:33 hannes mato: \o/

29-06-2016 15:33 avsm hannes: nice, there are multiboot patches floating around for xhyve too

29-06-2016 15:33 mato djwillia: Where should we put docs for running Mirage/Solo5? In the solo5 README, or somewhere else?

29-06-2016 15:33 mato Anyhow, the last remaining piece of the puzzle to get the whole stack running is sorting out nocrypto and friends.

29-06-2016 15:34 djwillia the readme sounds good to me for now, we should have a pointer to the unikernel-runner there at least

29-06-2016 15:34 djwillia mato: are you doing freestanding versions of gmp and zarith at the moment?

29-06-2016 15:34 mato I hope to have that sorted this week, then go onto doc and polish and figuring out upstreaming before the hackathon.

29-06-2016 15:35 mato djwillia: already done, now I need to figure out the OASIS-bashing to get mirage-entropy and nocrypto building

29-06-2016 15:35 djwillia wow great

29-06-2016 15:36 avsm it might well be a good time to topkg them up if oasis gets in the way -- ping me if you get blocked on the build system mato

29-06-2016 15:36 mato Stared at the _oasis and opam for some time today, no clear plan yet. I'm trying to avoid forking and/or duplicating code.

29-06-2016 15:36 mato avsm: Will do.

29-06-2016 15:36 dbuenzli I'm also available for topkg consulting.

29-06-2016 15:36 dbuenzli (free)

29-06-2016 15:36 mato Thanks. I've not looked at topkg yet.

29-06-2016 15:37 avsm Ok, thanks for the update! Solo5 support is incredibly exciting

29-06-2016 15:37 avsm GemmaG: over to the hackathon update!

29-06-2016 15:37 mato Cheers

29-06-2016 15:37 avsm I have to drop off to cycle across town... over to GemmaG and yomimono for the rest of the call. Cheers!

29-06-2016 15:38 hannes (can we pls put hackathon projects into canopy instead of into github wikis?)

29-06-2016 15:38 GemmaG Yay! Exciting hackathon times indeed - we have 25 signed up so far - I'm going to send a final reminder around to everyone tomorrow

29-06-2016 15:38 GemmaG Yes - I'm ok with that - whichever works best :)

29-06-2016 15:39 GemmaG I'd like everyone to plan what they are interested in working on, and for us to figure out if there are any blockers to those projects

29-06-2016 15:39 GemmaG I had started adding a list to the wiki, but happy to move it to canopy if preferred

29-06-2016 15:39 GemmaG Here atm:

29-06-2016 15:40 GemmaG Some Pioneer Projects might also be interesting/appropriate

29-06-2016 15:41 avsm just before i leave, does anyone need hardware brought

29-06-2016 15:41 avsm like cubies

29-06-2016 15:41 avsm also put them on that wiki

29-06-2016 15:41 avsm and if you need wired ethernet etc

29-06-2016 15:41 mato wired ethernet is always good

29-06-2016 15:42 djs55 I think I'll be fine with my laptop provided there's wifi

29-06-2016 15:42 GemmaG I'll get a projector etc sorted for any demos

29-06-2016 15:42 yomimono If we can be sure to get a lot of temporary wifi codes or whatever from college, that'd be very helpful I think

29-06-2016 15:42 djs55 yeah I don't have eduroam any more

29-06-2016 15:42 GemmaG yup - will do

29-06-2016 15:43 yomimono yay! :D

29-06-2016 15:43 mato I'd like to do a demo of Mirage/Solo5, will coordinate with djwillia...

29-06-2016 15:43 GemmaG Great :)

29-06-2016 15:43 djwillia really looking forward to meeting everyone in person!

29-06-2016 15:43 yomimono :D

29-06-2016 15:43 mato djwillia: will you be in cambridge for the whole week?

29-06-2016 15:44 djwillia yes, i'm flying during the day on sunday and leaving the following saturday

29-06-2016 15:45 mato great! looking forward to meeting in person :) i'll be arriving in cambridge monday evening, leaving also on saturday

29-06-2016 15:45 GemmaG Excellent!

29-06-2016 15:45 djwillia mato: will be great

29-06-2016 15:45 mato i have to run, gotta go and shift a bunch of servers in 30-degree heat :(

29-06-2016 15:45 djwillia GemmaG: for the help with accommodation!

29-06-2016 15:45 mato see you all later

29-06-2016 15:45 djwillia see you mato

29-06-2016 15:46 yomimono later mato - stay cool :)

29-06-2016 15:46 thomasga what's the next topic?

29-06-2016 15:46 GemmaG Outreachy - but Gina isn't on the call today

29-06-2016 15:46 thomasga "how's syslog?"

29-06-2016 15:46 yomimono she successfully sent us a log message indicating her planned absence :P

29-06-2016 15:46 thomasga ok :-)

29-06-2016 15:47 thomasga any other stuff?

29-06-2016 15:47 GemmaG She is planning on doing a syslog talk at Velocity in Amsterdam in Nov :)

29-06-2016 15:47 GemmaG Think that's about it, unless there is AoB?

29-06-2016 15:47 thomasga (I need to run too)

29-06-2016 15:47 yomimono sounds like it, then :)

29-06-2016 15:47 yomimono thanks everyone!

29-06-2016 15:47 thomasga see you all!

29-06-2016 15:48 GemmaG :D

29-06-2016 15:48 djwillia thanks and bye!