Irc discussions from #mirage on 15-02-2017

Written by lobo
Classified under: irclog
Published: 2017-06-25 (last updated: 2017-06-25)

15-02-2017 15:55 thomasga hello

15-02-2017 15:56 reynir hello

15-02-2017 15:57 amirmc o/

15-02-2017 16:00 thomasga meeting starting soon, please update the agenda if you want to discuss about stuff not in there yet

15-02-2017 16:00 thomasga agenda: https://github.com/mirage/mirage-www/wiki/Call-Agenda

15-02-2017 16:00 thomasga logs: https://irclog.whitequark.org/mirage/2017-02-15

15-02-2017 16:00 reynir oh! I always forget the meetings! o/

15-02-2017 16:00 vbmithr_ Hi

15-02-2017 16:01 djs55 waves

15-02-2017 16:01 thomasga we are still looking for someone to take "human-readable" notes of this meeting, if you are interested please do :-) (and send me a summary to put online)

15-02-2017 16:01 thomasga Mindy is travelling and asked me to run the meeting

15-02-2017 16:01 mort___ .

15-02-2017 16:01 thomasga so let's start!

15-02-2017 16:01 hannes hello!

15-02-2017 16:02 thomasga first item on the agenda (https://irclog.whitequark.org/mirage/2017-02-15) is: hack retreat!

15-02-2017 16:02 thomasga @hannes?

15-02-2017 16:02 hannes it will happen. we're 34ish people right now :)

15-02-2017 16:03 hannes still room for spontaneous guests (up to a certain level) :)

15-02-2017 16:03 thomasga I've read the introduction that people sent on the mailing list, that looks like a pretty nice bunch of people!

15-02-2017 16:04 hannes are there any specific questions? ;)

15-02-2017 16:04 thomasga apparently not :-)

15-02-2017 16:04 hannes I try to prepare some small service doing dhcp and dns using mirageos (and dnsupdate) for running locally :)

15-02-2017 16:04 thomasga do you plan to write blog posts?

15-02-2017 16:04 thomasga using canopy or something else?

15-02-2017 16:05 hannes I hope to also deploy a local git server, with canopy locally and mirrored off-site :)

15-02-2017 16:05 thomasga so that people not at the hackaton can see what is going on?

15-02-2017 16:05 thomasga (like me ? bouhouhou)

15-02-2017 16:05 hannes yes, we will! for sure! :) stay tuned

15-02-2017 16:05 thomasga great!

15-02-2017 16:05 mort___ +1 :)

15-02-2017 16:06 lobo hi

15-02-2017 16:06 hannes thomasga: you're really not coming? :(

15-02-2017 16:06 thomasga very low probability. Still not 0, so there is (a little) hope.

15-02-2017 16:06 hannes I'm optimistic! :D (should I just book you some plane tickets? ;)

15-02-2017 16:07 thomasga If nobody has more questions about the hackaton in Marroco, let's pass to the next item: Mirage3!

15-02-2017 16:07 thomasga Mindy is traveling, so she can't do an update. (I believe this meeting will be quick :p)

15-02-2017 16:08 thomasga but the tracking issue for the release is https://github.com/mirage/mirage/issues/592

15-02-2017 16:08 thomasga lots of boxes are ticked

15-02-2017 16:09 thomasga https://github.com/mirage/mirageos-3-beta contains all the tagged packages

15-02-2017 16:09 hannes thomasga: amirmc any news on the press release front? I guess the release is more or less tested now, and djs55 and thomasga busily add irmin+fs packages to the beta repo!?

15-02-2017 16:09 thomasga (which will be released soon)

15-02-2017 16:09 mort___ looks like mostly docs, deployable services, performance harness, blog posts / press releases left.

15-02-2017 16:09 mort___ are we going to hold the release up on the performance harness?

15-02-2017 16:09 mort___ i guess the docs and blog posts are being worked on… ?

15-02-2017 16:10 thomasga I have just added git.1.10.0, and I am planning to add Irmin.1.0.0 in there at one point (hopefully before the end of the week, but everything takes always more time than I expect...)

15-02-2017 16:10 mort___ i'll pick up getting mirage-perf working again (had forgotten about that)

15-02-2017 16:10 djs55 unfortunately the CI on mirageos-3-beta seems to be out of disk space

15-02-2017 16:11 hannes I don't think performance was a priority item of Mirage3 (though, intuitively it will be faster) ;)

15-02-2017 16:11 mort___ intuitive speed— the best kind ;)

15-02-2017 16:11 thomasga djs55: we need to wait for @avsm to come back to fix the CI :-/ we need a more automated solution

15-02-2017 16:11 thomasga Mindy wrote a draft of the release blog post: https://github.com/yomimono/mirage-www/blob/mirageos-3-post/tmpl/blog/mirage-3.0-released.md

15-02-2017 16:11 thomasga feedback welcome

15-02-2017 16:12 thomasga (you can add the feedback on the tracking issue for release, on GitHub mirage#592)

15-02-2017 16:13 thomasga @amirmc: anything to add related to the press release? everything is under control?

15-02-2017 16:14 thomasga hannes: are you still planning to work on the blog post "how MirageOS 3 got smaller and less magical"?

15-02-2017 16:14 hannes thomasga: yes. WIP

15-02-2017 16:14 hannes draft be there at the end of this week

15-02-2017 16:14 thomasga @talex5: any chance that you can pick up the ""error handling in MirageOS" draft RFC into currently-accurate document" task?

15-02-2017 16:14 seangrove Sounds exciting!

15-02-2017 16:14 thomasga otherwise I can try to do it :-)

15-02-2017 16:15 talex5 Hmm, well my proposal was for something different. I think we should close that PR.

15-02-2017 16:15 thomasga also, I am planning to write some docs for Irmin 1.0

15-02-2017 16:15 thomasga @talex5: it's probably useful to document a bit more how the error are now handled in Mirage. @djs55 had some related issues with qcow2

15-02-2017 16:16 thomasga but I can try to do it

15-02-2017 16:17 thomasga (I am still reviewing the list of things to do for the release) For the changelogs, I think Mindy has made some toolings, I'll check with her with is the status of that task.

15-02-2017 16:17 mort___ my impression from yesterday evening was that she won't directly include teh changelogs in the blog post but will have something that points to the github provided diffs-between-tags

15-02-2017 16:18 thomasga ok

15-02-2017 16:18 mort___ (but yes, check with her, she knows :)

15-02-2017 16:18 thomasga @seangrove is there anything that you would like to see for the release?

15-02-2017 16:19 seangrove thomasga: No, we're neck-deep in non-mirage-related stuff right now, so just watching from the sidelines

15-02-2017 16:19 thomasga something that you think will excite potential users?

15-02-2017 16:19 thomasga ok no pb

15-02-2017 16:19 thomasga if you think of anything, please tell us :-)

15-02-2017 16:19 amirmc Sorry, I was afk. Press Release is delayed on getting a date, which means co-ordinating with multiple parties. It's taken a while as there hasn't been a date that works for everyone. I've been chasing it and will let folks know as soon as I have more info. The content of the press release also needs to be reviewed by a bunch of people (e.g. LinuxFoundation, et al). First draft is pretty much ready for that.

15-02-2017 16:20 thomasga should we still decouple the actual opam release and blog post stream and the press release?

15-02-2017 16:20 thomasga (it's probably best, right?)

15-02-2017 16:20 amirmc To summarise, there are two blockers for the Press Release. 1. deciding a date and 2. getting the content approved. I'm working on both.

15-02-2017 16:20 amirmc Blog post pre-empts the press-release.

15-02-2017 16:20 thomasga great, thanks

15-02-2017 16:21 hannes and we plan to have it done before the hack retreat, don't we?

15-02-2017 16:21 amirmc i.e. if a 3.0 post goes out, then no-one will be interested in writing articles about the release. They're kind of coupled.

15-02-2017 16:21 djwillia amirmc: would it be possible for you to share the press release draft at this point? I'd still like to get IBM to make its quote :)

15-02-2017 16:21 amirmc Unless we want to have blog posts about specific features, rather than an overview post. That should be fine.

15-02-2017 16:21 mort___ amirmc: ok— so the press release has to come before the blog posts, but the opam releases could trickle out before?

15-02-2017 16:22 djwillia and i feel like i've been neglecting that

15-02-2017 16:22 amirmc djwillia: Yes, I'll share it once I've had various marketing depts sign off on it :)

15-02-2017 16:22 thomasga I am a bit confused with the dependencies between all the releases. It's a bit weird to just release in opam without publishing a blog post.

15-02-2017 16:23 mort___ it sounds like we're arguing ourselves to a state where everything is gated on the press release then

15-02-2017 16:23 thomasga so we keep everything in a separate remote until the press release is out?

15-02-2017 16:23 thomasga and no blog post?

15-02-2017 16:23 mort___ itym: blog post after press release?

15-02-2017 16:24 amirmc Yes, it would be weird to release that way. We can't release without explain to people what changed. But we can't tell people what changed without pre-empting our own announcement (shrug)

15-02-2017 16:24 thomasga do we really care about the press release? :p

15-02-2017 16:24 amirmc yes

15-02-2017 16:24 amirmc we do

15-02-2017 16:24 thomasga is there any chance that this will happen before the hackaton?

15-02-2017 16:24 amirmc We can still do a chai of posts like we did for 2.0 though.

15-02-2017 16:25 mort___ we also care about developer sanity :) so minimising time between packages being ready and release going out would be very useful

15-02-2017 16:25 amirmc It's only the announcement post (i.e. "here's 3.0!") that we shouldn't do.

15-02-2017 16:25 mort___ given the many api changes, i'm not sure how many pacakges can be released (and thus blogged about) incrementally

15-02-2017 16:25 thomasga not much

15-02-2017 16:25 hannes amirmc: for me (at least) it would be helpful to have in some issue a proposed timeline (with as precise dates as possible) for the release

15-02-2017 16:25 amirmc They can be blogged about in the context of the beta quite easily.

15-02-2017 16:26 amirmc hannes: I agree. And we keep thinking we had this but dates shift and code wasn't ready.

15-02-2017 16:27 thomasga code is ready now, so we can have a new timeline :-)

15-02-2017 16:27 hannes amirmc: then as soon as you have dates

15-02-2017 16:27 mort___ ok. so we start publishing a sequence of blog posts about "Mirage v3 beta components". meanwhile amirmc pushes forwards with the press release and we finally flip the switch in opam and put a summary "we released!" post live when the press release goes out … ?

15-02-2017 16:27 hannes thomasga: I couldn't find the right irmin release to run canopy on mirage3 yet ;P

15-02-2017 16:27 thomasga hum. code is "almost" ready now.

15-02-2017 16:28 amirmc mort___: that would work for me. And means we can link to those posts from the press release itself (which is a nice bonus)

15-02-2017 16:28 mort___ thomasga: yes, so we can start blogging it while the PR catches up (and we find remaining bugs, finish updating docs, etc)

15-02-2017 16:28 hannes (as stated above, I'll have the post on less magic and less code ready by the end of this week)

15-02-2017 16:28 mort___ amirmc: yes, true

15-02-2017 16:28 thomasga @mort___ @amirmc: as long as the beta doesn't long for 3 months, that looks good :p

15-02-2017 16:29 mort___ thomasga: amen to that :)

15-02-2017 16:29 amirmc For an example of how that worked for 2.0, see: http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/xen-project-introduces-new-mirage-os-release-1931602.htm

15-02-2017 16:29 mort___ that's what I meant about developer sanity — we don't want things queuing up against the "beta" repos for too long

15-02-2017 16:29 amirmc In that case we'd explicitly planned a blog post series before the release.

15-02-2017 16:29 mort___ else people feel compelled to submit issues / PRs against v2 versions

15-02-2017 16:30 thomasga @amirmc: can you sync with Mindy to check how she wants to run things? And try to come up with a timeline?

15-02-2017 16:30 amirmc I want this announcement (and code) to go out as much as everyone else.

15-02-2017 16:30 amirmc mindy's in the loop on all that stuff already :)

15-02-2017 16:30 mort___ yup understood :)

15-02-2017 16:30 mort___ cool

15-02-2017 16:31 djs55 I've been merging v3 things to components master branches for v3 now. This means that it's harder to get stuff to build than it was before (missing remote == odd errors). If it's going to be a while before the official release perhaps we should go round and edit all the READMe files

15-02-2017 16:31 thomasga sure, but it seems that having a timeline and communicating to the team seems to something quite important now :-)

15-02-2017 16:31 amirmc Blockers are as mentioned earlier 1. Dates and 2. Approvals from various parties. :)

15-02-2017 16:31 amirmc Unless we decide not to do a Press Release at all.

15-02-2017 16:32 mort___ i think that for graduation from LF it would be nice

15-02-2017 16:32 amirmc That's off the table for now

15-02-2017 16:32 mort___ (oh, hadn't realised)

15-02-2017 16:32 amirmc Since no-one really knows what it means :)

15-02-2017 16:33 mort___ amirmc: ok, so i guess the question is: how long until you think you can get a date nailed down from the various parties involved?

15-02-2017 16:33 thomasga @amirmc: do you have some estimates for the dates? Is that days/weeks/months? (curious about what to expect here)

15-02-2017 16:33 mort___ we can then take a view on whether we can feasibly wait that long given how ready things are

15-02-2017 16:34 thomasga (we might have lost Amir :p)

15-02-2017 16:35 thomasga any other topic to discuss for the release?

15-02-2017 16:35 amirmc I'll work on it and get back to you but the lead time is about a week or two (since people have to co-ordinate with journalists etc).

15-02-2017 16:35 mort___ in the meantime, perhaps we start releasing blog posts referring to components for mirage v3 beta

15-02-2017 16:35 thomasga ok great

15-02-2017 16:35 mort___ amirmc: that's a week or two until we have a date, which may be some weeks later?

15-02-2017 16:37 amirmc mort__: It's a minimum amount of time required. i.e. if dates were not a blocker, we could do it in a week or so.

15-02-2017 16:37 mort___ ok cool

15-02-2017 16:37 thomasga last item in our agenda: progress on Irmin 1.0.

15-02-2017 16:38 thomasga I am planning to merge https://github.com/mirage/irmin/pull/397 very soon

15-02-2017 16:38 amirmc Let me know if there are points I've not covered. I've been trying to read and type at the same time but I probably missed stuff.

15-02-2017 16:38 thomasga I have made a new release of ocaml-git (where references can be updated using test-and-set) and with better windows support.

15-02-2017 16:39 amirmc thomasga: The folks at Ericsson have been using Irmin a lot (v0.11 I believe). Any tips on how to move to the newer version (before release) would be helpful :)

15-02-2017 16:39 thomasga I will try to address/close the issues labeled with 1.0 on irmin bug tracker: https://github.com/mirage/irmin/labels/1.0

15-02-2017 16:39 thomasga @amirmc: yes, I am planning to write docs

15-02-2017 16:40 thomasga but I am focusing first of rewriting everything :-)

15-02-2017 16:40 mort___ thomasga: everything is … everything ;) is there anything that would benefit from wider testing?

15-02-2017 16:40 thomasga and I will try to update canopy too

15-02-2017 16:41 mort___ (ie., where you don't already need to know irmin :))

15-02-2017 16:42 thomasga the test suite is pretty complete, so I think that should be ok. I know the Git push/fetch protocol has some issues, this is not addressed in that release

15-02-2017 16:42 mort___ ok cool

15-02-2017 16:42 hannes will finally release -- after ~10 rewrites -- conex -- this week! http://berlin.ccc.de/~hannes/conex.png :D

15-02-2017 16:42 thomasga but I hope @dinosaure will fix all the issues related to push/fetch

15-02-2017 16:43 mort___ hannes: yay! thomasga: yes!

15-02-2017 16:43 thomasga anything else to discuss?

15-02-2017 16:44 thomasga if not, I call the end of that meeting! Merci everyone

15-02-2017 16:44 mort___ au revoir!

15-02-2017 16:44 thomasga meeting notes: https://irclog.whitequark.org/mirage/2017-02-15

15-02-2017 16:44 djwillia thanks all!